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*Fin discussion
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ninjachris
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Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 273
Location: melbourne, aus

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this song is hard for me to understand but you can tell by the emotions and lyrics chosen that theres a message to the song....i just wish i knew what it was :S
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Spitterman
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Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard this song is about St. Jude, the Patron Saint of lost causes. He got his name because he (St. Jude Thaddeus) was confused with Jesus' betrayer (Judas Iscariot). As you probably know a patron saint is a saint regarded as the special guardian of a person, group, trade, country, etc. In this case, he was the guardian of Judas. Pretty much all the work he ended up doing was a lost cause, and I think all the stuff in the song about a family was his work getting in the way of his family and (it sounds like) at the end of his life Billy (a priest or his kid maybe) tells him his whole work was a lost cause and tells him about God and all that and the guy wonders if he can be forgiven by Go and his family...at least that's what I heard.


P.S. I think I remember people asking for correct lyrics including the last two minutes and this is the best that I could do -

Feels like I'm miles from here in other towns
With lesser names where the unholy ghost doesn't tell
Mary or William exactly what they want to hear
You remember the house on Ridge Road
Told you and the devil to both just leave me alone
If this is salvation I can show you the trembling
You'll just have to trust me. I'm scared

I am the patron saint of lost causes
Aren't we all to you just near lost causes
Are we all to you just lost?

Tommy, you left behind
Something you'll mean everything right before you die
What if you gained the whole world
You've already lost four little souls from your life
Widows and orphans aren't hard to find
They're home missing daddy who's saving the world tonight
Wish your drinking would hurry and kill you
Sympathy's better than having to tell you the truth

That you are the patron saint of lost causes
All you are to them is now a lost cause
All you are to them is now causes

Billy, don't you understand?
Timothy stood as long as he could and now
You made his faith disappear
More like a magician
And less like a man of the cloth
We're not questioning God
Just those he chose to carry on his cross
We're no better, you'll see
Just all of us, the lost causes

Aren't we all to you just lost causes?
Aren't we all to you lost?
Lost causes
Aren't we all to you
Is all we are, is all we are
What we are is all we are

Choir:
Patron saint, are we all lost like you?
Patron saint, are we all lost like you?
Patron saint, are we all lost like you?
Patron saint, are we all lost like you?

Patron saint, are we all lost like you?
(Lost causes, we are is all we are)
Patron saint, are we all lost like you?
(To you, lost causes)

Patron saint, are we all lost like you?
Patron saint, are we all lost like you?
Patron saint, are we all lost like you?

Take what you will, what you will
And leave
Could you kill, could you kill me
If the world was on fire
And nothing was left but hope or desire
And take all that I could recall
Is this hell
Or am I on the floor
Over desperate cold hands?
Screaming of love again?

Lets fade, fall away, follow me?
Like a bad dream?
Figure this out
It’s me on my own
A helpless, hurting hell

Is this all that you promised
‘Cause I’m stranded and bare

To me this is worse still
But all that I have does not deaden this at all

And this takes nil place
Of the father you never had
Bending and breaking and tearing apart
This is not heaven, this is my hell
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ninjachris
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Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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Location: melbourne, aus

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow! GREAT job there!! Did you work out the last bit yourself?
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Spitterman
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Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 2
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninjachris wrote:
wow! GREAT job there!! Did you work out the last bit yourself?


I took a couple versions that people thought they heard and switched them around to what I thought it was.

And listening to the song, I don't think it's saint jude they're talking about but another saint. Probably a St. Timothy or something. And they were probably a patron saint of darwin or judas...etc
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ethereal0313
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Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 581

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paperthin Hymnal wrote:
While everyone is more hung up on the ending of (*Fin), I too want to know what Stephen's saying after he sings the part "They're home missing daddy..." as someone else said above me that the lyrics that came with the CD say "...who's saving the world tonight" and I agree the line doesn't sound like that at all.

Does anyone know what it's really saying?


I think it's saying, "who's saving the abandoned tonight." I saw it on a lyrics site, and I think it makes sense, as it could imply that the dad is being unfaithful.
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Superfrog
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Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 474
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice thoughts but i'm going to have to disagree with you. i dont think the songs literally about a saint.
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kalondo
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Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you think about these lines?

Feels like I'm miles from here, in other towns with lesser names, where the unholy ghost doesn't tell Mary or William exactly what they want to hear

Assuming the unholy ghost is depression-- if the lives of Mary and William are perhaps the "other towns"-- what on earth does it mean? Is this just another way of saying "Mary and William feel hopelessly rotten, and so do I"?

I find the names very interesting, and my first thought on hearing them was in fact William and Mary of Orange, which someone already mentioned here. The two are famous for being royalty, but having no country of their own until the English called them up.

...I think.

Can anyone make anything of that, or am I just chasing the breeze?
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Zanth21
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Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 117
Location: Colorado Springs

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no one is ever going to know the meaning of this song unless Stephen writes it all out on his blog or something.... ::hint, hint:::
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Paperthin Hymnal
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 8
Location: OKC, OK, United States

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ethereal0313 wrote:
Paperthin Hymnal wrote:
While everyone is more hung up on the ending of (*Fin), I too want to know what Stephen's saying after he sings the part "They're home missing daddy..." as someone else said above me that the lyrics that came with the CD say "...who's saving the world tonight" and I agree the line doesn't sound like that at all.

Does anyone know what it's really saying?


I think it's saying, "who's saving the abandoned tonight." I saw it on a lyrics site, and I think it makes sense, as it could imply that the dad is being unfaithful.


Ahh yes, that's the line. It's been bugging me ever since I first heard the song on the 20th last month. Thank you, ethereal.

I definitely like "Who's saving the abandoned tonight" as opposed to "Who's saving the world tonight" as it gives the father less credibility. He should be saving his own family first then going after those that have been abandoned. This particular verse hit home so close (other than the drinking part) that it did make me cry. I love (*Fin)!
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kanralwashere
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Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is definitely my favorite song on the album, but it's also the most engimatic. I personally think that, based on the lyrics, the song is about hypocrites and failures who fall short of God's glory, kind of like a testament to the weakness of the human race.
Of course, I could be totally wrong- what do you guys think?
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myan27
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope this helps!

Stephen explains "Fin" from an interview on hollywoodjesus.com (the website says that the interview was also done with Nathan Strayer but I personally think it's Knate Young from reading the responses!):

HJ: Word choice seems really important to the band. I've taken a stab at the 'meanings' of a bunch of your songs in [my review] but "Fin" seems so compact and full, there's just a lot going on. Shed some light on that song. It seems personal, complete with names, [is it] an actual event? Help listeners (as "Whisper and A Clamor" is certainly a wake-up call) see what's behind the words of "Fin" and maybe other songs.

Stephen: “Fin” (pronounced like the fin on a shark’s back) means ending in French. I felt like this was a conclusion (or just a start) to my rad tug-of-war with God. I have a lot of questions, a lot that I may never really understand or have the capacity to comprehend in this lifetime. “Fin” is a series of four stories, that all tie together in the line ‘patron saint of lost causes.’ The first story is a personal memoir about my life as a child and the pull on my soul even then. I deliberated even at eight years old, that it would be better that God and the devil would just both leave me alone. The second story is about a couple from my early teen years’ church who cried for a miracle. It was a promised miracle, and it never came about. That leaves an impression. The third is about a mentor that used the guise of 'missions work' to leave his family in shambles and eventually decay. That plays with your salvation, when one experiences it. [The fourth story is about] Billy, a traveling ' healer' who crippled my life and growth right in front of me. All these things and many, many others made me lose my salvation. But later in life I realized I needed to stop looking at Christians to see Christ. I wrestled with God, and he won.
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Superfrog
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Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 474
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow thanks a lot for that champ. clears up a lot!
but i don't know what verse stephen is refering to with the "second story". i only counted 3? or is it tied in with the first verse?
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vishneda
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Joined: 17 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The couple is William and Mary and the unholy ghost was the one who promised a miracle that would never come.
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Drummerchick88
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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 1248
Location: Puyallup, WA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHAT?????

did he really say they made him lose his salvation?

wow, that can't be what he meant. there is NO way for a christian to lose their salvation.


i seriously can't believe he said that

please tell me i misunderstood
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BitterOblivion1408
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Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"All these things and many, many others made me lose my salvation. But later in life I realized I needed to stop looking at Christians to see Christ. I wrestled with God, and he won."

i think what he meant was... all these things that he saw were hypocritical... it made an impression that Christianity might be false... and then later he realized its about him and God and not the people... Stephen has said in past interviews he has explored almost every religion before finally coming to the conclusion that Christianity is the true one.
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